The Outsiders - Chapters 4 and 5
Before commenting on either of our questions for Chapters 4 and 5, enjoy a video clip from the 1983 movie version of The Outsiders. As you watch, don't click on the pop-ups that ask you to subscribe to anything or to rate the clip. Just watch and enjoy:
Now, feel free to comment on any one of these three questions. Proofread what you post before posting it and correct as many spelling and grammar errors as possible:
- Even though Johnny killed Bob the Soc, it seems that this act might be justified in that the Socs were drowning Ponyboy. Do Johnny and Ponyboy do the right thing in escaping to the countryside, or did they have a better choice? Explain why you feel the way you do.
- As we get to see more of Dally in Chapters 4 and 5, do you see any positive character traits in him, or is he simply bad news? Justify your answer with an example or two from the story so far.
- Many readers are surprised to suddenly encounter a poem in Chapter 5. It's a good guess that the message of this poem is important to this novel. What do you think is the message of the poem?:
Nature's first green is gold
Her hardest hue to hold
Her early leaf's a flower;
But only so an hour.
Then leaf subsides to leaf.
So Eden sank to grief,
So dawn goes down to day.
Nothing gold can stay.
I think the poem is trying say that nothing lasts forever. And even if Ponyboy's situation looks good now, it will eventually turn bad. I think that this poem is trying to tell us that something bad will happen soon.
ReplyDeleteI do not think that they should have run away to the countryside; they needed to face the problem. We have all heard the common saying: Fight or Flight. They needed to fight not flight. They needed to go to Darry and Sodapop and talk to them instead of just escaping. Feel free to comment!
ReplyDeletei am writng about the first question Mr. F.
ReplyDeleteI think that most of the time you should stick up for your gang. If you do not stick up for your gang then they have no reason to stick up for you. Unless the situation is harmful of dangerous to yourself, in general you should stick up for gang. If sticking up for your gang hurts someone else, depending on who it is you should have your own opinion by yourself. For example, when Ponyboy was getting beaten up by the Socs the other members of his gang came and saved him. One of the reasons the gang saved Ponyboy was because he was loyal to them.
I think that johnny and pony really didn't have many other choices.I agree that running away was the best to keep them alive. But running away has good things and bad things. Its good because no one really knew where they were. A bad thing because they will have a hard time getting food staying safe and alive!
ReplyDeleteplease comment.
I think Ponyboy and Johnny did do the right thing running away. If they had stayed then Johnny might have been killed by he police and Ponyboy might have gone to jail. Even if Johnny and Ponyboy were let off the hook because Ponyboy was getting drowned, the rest of the Socs probably would have killed or hurt Johnny and Ponyboy. They had Dallys help after all and he had been in these situations before. Dally had experience on what to do in these situations. Ponyboy and Johnny had a good hiding spot and money. It was also less risky then staying.
ReplyDeleteWell I feel that they didn't have any choice and that they had to run away because even if they were right the police hated the greasers and the police wouldn't listen to there case. Also I disagree with what An T says that they"
ReplyDeleteneeded to fight" because the couldn't. Fighting was not a choice if they didn't run away and they were caught then Johnny would have been electrocuted. And Ponyboy and Darry are in an argument so he can't go and tell Sodapop and Darry, just to remind you this is after Darry slapped Ponyboy and that was for staying late imagine what Darry would do if he heard Ponyboy killed someone. In conclusion I think that Ponyboy and Johnny did do the right thing by running away and that they had no other choice.
unlike An T.i think going to the countryside was a good idea.if he fought then i garentee it would end badly, having finished the book(no spoiler!). if they didnt want to go to the countryside then they should of just stayed behind and straitened it out with the police.
ReplyDeleteI think it was a good idea for Ponyboy and Johnny to run away because a lot of people are after them, but eventually they need to go back home and just face the Socs. I also think that Ponyboy and Johnny should have told Darry and Sodapop that they killed someone, and that they were running away.
ReplyDeleteI feel that johnny and ponyboy had no choice but to run away. I think that because if they stayed the police would catch them and kill them. Also I think Johnny shouldn't have let ponyboy come with him he should have told him that it was his mess and that ponyboy shouldn't have to help clean it up
ReplyDeleteI disagree with Anika because if they fought then they would have died. They couldn't just asked darry and sodapop for help! How could they help! The only way Johnny and Ponyboy would be able to live was to run away to the church dally talked about.
ReplyDeleteI am answering the first question- I think that Jonny and Ponyboy did not do the right thing by running away. I think they should of told the story. Yes I agree that Jonny should of not killed Bob of course but the socs also did something nearly as bad. I don't think that Jonny and Ponyboy would get in to much trouble since Ponyboy almost died by getting drowned. This is why I think that Ponyboy and JOnny did not do the right thing.
ReplyDeleteI think this chapter shows you Dally might do bad things, but he isn't a bad person. He doesn't say he won't help them or that he doesn't care, he lets them take their own route and gives them money, a hideout, means of transportation, and a gun. He doesn't seem at all like a mean person, just a person hardend by circumstances. He also doesn't tell Darry where they are.
ReplyDeleteI think that Dally is not what he seems. Never judge a book by it's cover or it's first few chapters- in saying at first Dally seems all "tuff" (cool looking) and then we think he's mean and insolent and a bad kid, but maybe Johnny's right and he's a good kid- just doesn't know how to get by life. Clearly, Johnny knows more about Dally then we think because he compares Dally to the southern people in Gone With the Wind who have manners. Maybe Dally is better than we think..... Also, towards the end of the chapter, Dally brings news, money, to Ponyboy and Johnny- it's one thing to come and visit- it' another to buy them food, give them money, and LIE to the cops. I think that is an act of generousity.... though I might change my view towards the end of the book. COMMENT PLEASE :)
ReplyDeleteI think that Ponyboy and Johnny did the right thing by running away to the country side because if they had stayed in hiding somewhere the police would have a better chance of finding them because the police know of greasers and socs. And even if they did stay where could they have gone it won’t just be police going and looking for people, there would be socs and others looking for them. I think they made the right decision of going to the countryside even if they know that the story about Johnny killing the soc will pop out any second.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with an t. because if they had stayed, Johnny would have been executed and Pony would have been prosecuted. They were forced to flee because there were too many consequences. But the one thing they shouldn't have done, was run immediately. If they had stayed a little longer, they could have goten more supplies and developed a foolproof plan. After a half a day, they should have left before the cops figured out they murdered Bob.
ReplyDeleteI think the right desicion is hard to make when your scared. It sounds very simple, but I doubt its that easy to turn yourself in. Please keep in mind that they have death sentence here, and the jury is prejudec against greasers. Ponyboy may also be split up from his remianing family because he said they were going to the oark because Darry hit him. This family was bearly allowed to stay together in the first plac. The smallest thing could have split them up. The right thing to do would have been to go to court with cherry as a witness and present their case honestly. They had law to back them up since it was self defense.
ReplyDeleteHey Mr F. and everyone!
ReplyDeleteI agree with Voldemort because the poem is just saying bad stuff which in my opinion means that something bad is on its way because otherwise they wouldn't just randomly put in a poem meaning bad! I think that it was a good idea to run away, but they should have ran away with a few more friends because it's harder to get board of five people and it would be a lot more fun! They also could have hidden somewhere near the gang but that would probably be easier for the police to find them.
I think Johnny and Ponyboy did the right thing by escaping to the church. They did the right thing because they cannot just stay in there town and wait until the cops find out who killed Bob. Another smart thing that they did was that they cut and bleached there hair so nobody would recognize them. Even though I think they did the right thing there are also reasons why they did the bad thing by going there. One reason is that they should have told Sodapop, and Darry what happened so they can give Johnny and Ponyboy advice on what to do. A second thing is that Johnny committed a series crime and he might get away with it, but he will never be able to go back to his home.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with Uriya. He says that Darry would get really mad at Ponyboy for killing someone. First of all Ponyboy did not kill anyone it was Johnny who killed Bob. The second thing is that Dallas told Ponyboy when he visited, that Darry was very sorry for hitting Ponyboy.
ReplyDeletei also think that they did the right thing by running away. if they had stayed they would have faced many more problems because of the police and johnny would probably have been charged with manslaughter even though it was only in self defense. this way they're safe (at least for now).
ReplyDeleteI disagree with An. T and think that they did the right thing in escaping to the countryside because if they faced the problem then johnny would have been arrested, maybe even killed for killing Bob, and the Socs would have probably hurt Ponyboy alot.But I do think that he should have first told Soda and Darry since he ran away from them right before it happened and they are his brothers and really care about him.
ReplyDeleteWelcome all!
ReplyDeleteBe sure to look at your comments before you post them to catch as many grammar and spelling errors as possible.
Annie, you comment that the law would be prejudiced against greasers. Does this fact alone make running away from their crime the right thing to do?
I agree with what An.T said because Ponyboy and Jonhny shouldn't try to hide in the church for the rest of their lives; they should turn their selfs in (as Sodapop says in the letter). But they really couldn't because otherwise the police might do something to Jonhny and seperate ponyboy and his brothers.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with An.T because if they told Darry and Sodapop that they had killed a person even if it's a soc they would probably get yelled at by Darry and that would give them even more stress to worry about. So they did the right decision about not telling Darry and Sodapop. And if they had stayed in the area they would be arrested and even killed
ReplyDeleteWell I think Johnny and Ponyboy didn't really have a choice. Johnny killed one of the socs and now they are in very big danger although I agree with An.T that they should have talked to Darry and Sodapop before they escaped. Darry and Sodapop were very worried about them and Soda and Johnny only had $50 to spend on food. What are they gonna do when they run out of money?
ReplyDeleteI think that in this chapter we start to see different sides of Dally Winston, and we start to think better of him. I'm sure that in any person there are good things and bad things. It is possible that in Dally's case there are more bad things, but surprisingly, in this chapter we can see also good Characteristics. When Ponyboy and Johnny came to him- he could have just shut the door in their face, but he helped them, and gave Ponyboy his jacket. I don’t think that in this moment Dally totally changes and from now on he is going to start helping the community, but we should know that this good side of him exists. I think that Dally's life forced him to become what he is now, he had to act like that all his life to survive, and now, he kind of lost his humaneness and his ability to love. Even though, I still think that Dally does have some kind of personal charm that even a girl like Cherry Valance, a soc, could see.
ReplyDeleteIthink that even running away is stupid because even if they come back, they are going to be caught. It doesn't really matter that they cut their hair and dyed it,we don't know if the dye is permenent or not. If it is not then their hair is going to grow back and the dye will fade so in some amount of years they will be caught. If not then I still think it is stupid. They need to face the truth and JUST DEAL WITH IT. When you get yelled at or do something bad you might want to run away, but you have to think about what you did wrong and accept it snd don't do it again.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Rachel that we could have easily made an assumption about Dally earlier on, probably a negative one. I think that Dally has two sides, a greaser side and a protective side. The greaser side of him was really strong in the first few chapters but I think we just might get a glimpse at the protective side of him. Dally could have said to Johnny and Ponyboy "Get out of my sight and go protect yourself without me", but despite being in danger of caught in helping Johnny and Ponyboy, Dally gave them a lot of money and safety and comfort. I think we see a lot of his protective side and a tiny bit of the greaser, he didn't care if he was going to get caught instead he helped them out a lot
ReplyDeleteI agree with Voldemort. It means that some things are good for awhile but then it all goes bad. Ponyboy left the town to get out of the situation for awhile but something is going to go bad there and he will come back home.
ReplyDeleteI agree with both Aleeza and An.T, I do NOT think that it was a smart idea to run to the country, they should have gone to Sodapop and Dally and asked for help first. After all Johnny only killed Bob out of self defense and it was only because they were drowning Ponyboy, and with all the emotions and seeing Ponyboy in the fountain he probably wasn't thinking straight when he killed Bob. Also, maybe he wanted to get back at the Socs for what they had done to him. I'm not saying that two wrongs make a right, but why is it fair that the Socs can beat up the Greasers for no reason at all? This is why I think that Ponyboy and Johnny should not have run to the country.
ReplyDeleteAriana, what help could you imagine that Sodapop or Dally could give Johnny and Ponyboy if they hadn't run away?
ReplyDeleteI agree with Rachel, I think everyone judged Dally before they even "knew him." As Rachel said, never judge a book by it's cover, and so why should that be different with people why should you judge someone by the way that they look or the way that they dress or the color of their skin before you know them. It's the same think with Dally, he seems like this "tuff" kid but really he is actually really nice and sweet. We see this in the book many times but it is kind of "hidden," because of what is happening around that time. The first time we see it is at the movie theater when he scares Johnny, we see here that Dally really does care about Johnny and that he will do almost anything for him. Also, when Johnny and Ponyboy are running away Dally gives them a gun, and money, and when he visits them at the church he drives them to get food. I think that all of this shows that Dally really is a good guy on the inside.
ReplyDeleteAnybody watch the video clip yet? Anybody happen to hear that they just asked a question about The Outsiders on Jeopardy? Anybody starting to see why Cherry might be attracted to Dally?
ReplyDeleteDally is my favorite character. I think of all of the people in Ponyboy's gang as "good guys", and the Socs as "bad guys". I am starting to realze that this novel is not black and white, it's completely gray. Dally has quite a few good characteristics. For example, as Johnny said, Dally took the blame for when Two-bit broke the school windows without hesitation. He is very loyal. Last time Mr. F., you had the question "how far would you go for your friends?". I have a feeling that Dally would go all the way for his friends. Also, as other people have said, Dally helps Ponyboy and Johnny's escape. He gives them food, money, and a loaded gun.
ReplyDeleteI'm answering the first question.I think that it was not a good idea because they would have had a better chance of not getting in to a whole lot of trouble.It was a bad idea to go because then they would get in more trouble because it would seem that what they did was on purpose and that they were trying to run away from what they did.what would will happen to them when someone finds them or when they run out of money?
ReplyDeleteI think that Dally has some good traits to him. On the outside, all he cares about is being cool. When it comes to helping others in the gang, he works hard to help them. This relates to the first question we blogged on because it shows how much people in a gang stick up for eachother. Dally really cares about the gang.
ReplyDeleteI watched the video clip. I think that the video showed Dally as "tuff", and very much in control of the situation. I definently see why Cherry is attracted to Dally, and as I said earlier, he is my favorite character. [But no, I don't watch Jeopardy. What was the question?]
ReplyDeleteWhere did the bunnies come from in the clip?!
ReplyDeleteMr. F. what was the question on jeoprady? I see that Dally is all cool and it seems like he never actually gets mad. He is tough and tuff. It is not surprising that Cherry likes him and is scared of him at the same time. I do not think it is a bad thing that Cherry likes Dally even though she thinks it is. He somehow gets a LOT of attention (mostly for bad things) around town.
ReplyDeleteJesse, clearly running away makes it seem that the boys are guilty. I suppose if they never got caught they might be OK, but what about Ponyboy's brothers? Won't he get homesick, at least for Sodapop? And what about the fact that Ponyboy did nothing wrong (right?)?
ReplyDeletePeople keep saying that it wasn't a good idea to run away, but I think it was a good choice. This way, they are safe, Dally still knows where they are, and he can help them. And eventually, they can go back to their 'normal lives'.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with Sarah W. just because of the fact that Dally (aside from the Socs) is my LEAST favorite character. In my opinion Dally is a plan criminal. He doesn't care a bit about the law and he is always going to rodios and bars. He is drunk most of the time and he commits crime for pleasure. To me he just seems like a person who has no idea what to do with his life, so instead, he smokes and gets drunk. Mr. F. asked if Cherry could be attracted to Dally. If I were here I wouldn't like Dally. If anything, I would be scared of him. After all, if a stranger comes up to you in a movie theater and starts swearing, I wouldn't see anything to like about that. Which is why I am confused as to why Cherry is attracted to him. She has grown up in a high class home, and Dally's ways and manners are appalling. To me these two just don't match up.
ReplyDeleteJeopardy asked for the title of a book by S.E. Hinton set in Tulsa, Oklahoma and featuring socs and greasers. Too easy, right?
ReplyDeleteI am answering question 1. I think that they made the right choice to run away because if they had not then johnny would have gone to jail and Ponyboy would have been in trouble too. If they are caught now then they will be in even more troubles it is a risky choice but i still think they made the right choice.
ReplyDeleteThe video is pretty good but I thought the church would look much different. Kind of funny that there is a question about The Outsiders on Jeopardy tonight. What specifically was it about Mr. F?
Gabby, I think Dally is a typical greaser with maybe a little heart that we don't see so much. I think that Dally isn't any worse than other greasers, I think we see a bit more heart in him then other characters but at the same time more of his criminal greaser side than any other person. I can understand why cherry likes him, he is brave and generous although he is a criminal.
ReplyDeleteEveryones saying that they shouldn't run away....but I disagree. When I get so mad at people sometimes I just refuse to talk to them for days. Thats how Ponyboy felt when Dary hit him. If he went to Darry and Sodapop how would they help? First of all, Darry would get so mad he might just slap him again.... secondly the police would find them.... and then what? Kill them? Put them in jail? I think they should of ran away... but they also should of at least told other people like two-bit and steve. But I do they think they made the right decision.
ReplyDeleteHi all,
ReplyDeletePlease note that I won't post a comment that hints too closely at a spoiler nor will I post a comment signed only as Anonymous. Also, don't forget that your first comment should be approximately five sentences in length, to better insure that your comment includes supporting arguments.
Mr. F., I think that Sodapop, and Darry could have helped Ponyboy by in a way taking him to court. Maybe they could have gotten him a court date or argued with the policeman to prove that they are innocent.
ReplyDeleteI think that Johnny and Ponyboy should have turned themselves in because they have a good case and they are still going to get caught someday if they hide out, and it is better if they turn themselves in now rather than be captured and given a harsher punishment.
ReplyDeleteI think the poem means that it is hard to hold on to anything good, and if something good does happen, to try to hold on to it.
I will not be approving any more comments tonight. Feel free to post your thoughts and your opinions about your classmates' ideas. I'll check them out in the morning and approve all appropriate comments. Thanks for a stimulating conversation!
ReplyDeleteI am answering the first question. I think that Ponyboy and Johnny did the right thing at the moment to run away. I think the only problem is that will the just stay there forever or will someome find them. Also it is going to be very hard to get money and to live healthy. Another problem might be that news might travel to the towns surronding the place where Ponyboy and Johnny are an people willl recognize them.
ReplyDeleteI am answering the first question. I think that they did the right thing in running away, although maybe they should have asked someone else what they should do first. Since they ran away, they are safe for now, and after a while, maybe they could go back. By then, it's possible that all the "excitement" will die down and it will be easier to explain why they killed Bob to the police. Of course, the bad thing about running away is that it is hard to get food and other things that they need.
ReplyDeleteA lot of people are saying that Johnny or Ponyboy will be executed. I don't know for sure, but I doubt that will happen, because Johnny only killed him in self-defense.
I think that Johnny and Ponyboy did the right thing when they hid. They may be in more trouble after they hid but I think they made the right decision. They get more time together and to be them selves.If I were to be in there situation I would do the the same thing.
ReplyDeleteGabby, I disagree with what you were saying. He may be a criminal but I think that somewhere there is a soft side. And deep down he is a good person. I mean when he helps Ponyboy and Johnny we see he is helping his friends which a true criminal might not have done. So far he hasn't turned them in which shows that you can trust him. I think Cherry saw that Dally may not be entirely bad despite his actions and that is why she said she just might fall in love with him.
I think that Ponyboy and Johnny did not do the right thing when they ran away to the country, because what Johnny did was perfectly justified when he killed Bob. It was only an act of self-defense. Johnny basically killed an enemy to save a friend. In my opinion I think that they should have stayed and told that police what had happened with complete faith in the fact that if they tell the truth than everything will come out fine.Also I think that if they run away than it could only be more evidence for the Socs that they are guilty.
ReplyDeleteHere's a couple of themes from your comments worth discussing in class next week:
ReplyDelete1.) Dally performs criminal acts and cruel acts, yet many of you see a good side of him, and even find him a favorite character. How do you think S.E. Hinton wants us to respond to Dally?
2.) If Johnny goes on trial and pleads self-defense, what do you expect the opposing side in the case to say? If it's the socs' word vs. the greasers, who will win in court?
When Uriya said that Darry would get mad if he heard that Ponyboy killed someone, Ponyboy did not do the killing, Johnny did.
ReplyDeleteMr. F, I think that Pony and Johnny did not choose wisely,and the judge probably would have gave them a light sentence, because they killed in defense. Now since they have run away, the judge can tack on another offense. Therefore, it was just a good reason to get a longer jail sentence.
ReplyDeleteI think that they did the right thing, because when people will hear what happened, they will say that they are responsible to what they are doing and it is their fault.
ReplyDeleteI say that running away was the right thing because if they had just run to Darry and Sodapop, what are they going to do when the police come? Or if they just stood where they would have been taken to court and the judge would have favored the socs.
ReplyDeleteI think Ponyboy And Johnny should have turned themselves in .
ReplyDeleteI don"t think the police would just arrest them without hearing what they had to say.
Johnny killed Bob in self defence. Think about what you would do if you were terrified/upset/angry/seeking vengeance. They wouldn't give him a life sentence and especially not the death sentence. this is exactly what happened to Darry. If you asked him: "would you ever hit Pony?" he'd answer "NO!". Its isntinct that made Johnny kill Bob.
I think that it was right for Johnny to kill Bob because if he didn't, Ponyboy would have been drowned to death and it is self defense.
ReplyDeleteHowever, instead of running away they could have called the cops and the judge would see their point that it was self defense and they wouldn't go to jail.